In: character, masculinity, podcast

Brett and Kate McKay • 28 July 2026

With the release of Christopher Nolan’s Odyssey adaptation, it seems like everyone is talking about the 3,000-year-old epic again. But my guest believes this ancient story provides a framework for understanding our modern lives that you probably haven’t heard before.

Patrick Deneen is a political science professor and author. American odyssey. Today on the show, Patrick argues that Odysseus embodies a tension that has defined the human experience, and especially the American experience: We are both searching and searching for home, rooted and restless. We desire to settle down somewhere, yet we are equally driven to move beyond the horizon in search of something new. Patrick shares how Alexis de Tocqueville made this observation about our country two centuries ago, how Odysseus overcomes the temptation to become both more than human and less than human, and how Patrick believes that astonishing act is the most heroic act Odysseus ever does. We end our conversation with the idea that having a home can give us the confidence to explore, or as David Brooks said, “The whole of life is a series of courageous explorations from a secure base.”